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Dean Cooper's avatar

You clearly haven't grown up in the Evangelical world like I have. You're making some mistakes because you don't understand well enough how they think. You need some nuance.

As with any group of people, there is a spectrum of beliefs. Just because some might think this war with Iran is part of the End Times, doesn't mean Evangelicals as a whole think we are speeding up the return of Christ by engaging in it. Relatively few Evangelicals would believe our foreign policy should be manipulated towards the goal of hastening Christ's return. Typically, they simply look at current events and think this could well be a sign of the times - as they have for every single war in the past.

Likewise, Israelis have a spectrum of beliefs too. While there are some who do want to expand Israel to have much larger borders, typically, the Greater Israel language simply means expanding in the West bank. Certainly it gets complicated - especially in Israel where their parliamentary system gives outsized influence to the small parties that are more extremist. But Israel is not planning to invade Jordon, Egypt or Saudi Arabia, nor do I think they even consider it. They do want control of the Golan Heights and they would be happy if the Palestinians were moved out of Gaza, but they aren't going to commit genocide to make that happen.

You're overreading some of this. Netanyahu's statement to remember Amalek has to do with Hamas, not the Palestinians. He was telling the military that they need to completely eliminate Hamas. He's said this repeatedly and has explicitly made it their goal. If I was in his position, I'd be using the same language. There are times when a group is so bent on evil (as Oct 7th showed), that the only thing you can do is to completely eliminate them.

Many Evangelicals believe the Jewish temple will be rebuilt. That does not mean that they believe the Al-Aqsa mosque should be destroyed by human hands. They largely are leaving that up to God. Perhaps an Iranian missile will accidently hit it. Or an Earthquake will destroy it. Or the "temple mount" isn't even the site of the original temple. Or the biblical prophecies are misunderstood. But the red heifer could well be a sign. From what I understand, no previous red heifer has ever been accepted as sufficiently pure - until these recent cows.

Here's something interesting. The Ezekiel prophecy of the Gog/Magog war specifically says that it will happen in a time of peace. If the Iranian regime falls, then this could lead to real peace in the region. And that could be what the prophecy is talking about. But who knows? Still, this is how Evangelicals think. They believe the bible. They've been taught to interpret it in certain End Time ways. And so you simply try to connect the dots with what's happening.

Regardless, this war won't go on long. Trump can't have it ruin the economy and his presidency. If he puts troops on the ground, it will be small numbers for a short period of time.

Robert Stewart's avatar

James Lindsay, New Discourses, posted a video that I found informative: "The Israel Question as the Modern Jewish Question". His thesis in this lecture is that the stateless nature of the Jews in the historical past has made them a ready target for the progroms that have swept the western world. The solution that was advanced after WW2, a 2-state nation, was a convenient way to ignore the reality that the Islamic world is a truly messianic theology. Rather than confront the ancient and violent history that is being replayed with modern weapons, the West continues to think that prosperity will eventually soften the hard core of Islam. Good luck with that! Iran used adolescent boys to sweep Iraqi minefields with their tennis shoes and a promise of heaven. Your summary of the attacks on Iran's neighbors was fascinating and very useful. But did it not occur to you that the same thing has been imposed on Israel using proxies for decades? Tens of thousands of missiles have been launched from adjacent countries controlled by Iranian militias, and from Iran itself, with hardly any notice by western powers. Ditto the acts of piracy that characterize the Red Sea and its approaches. How can this be ignored? Is it just the nature of Islam that leads to this? Must the modern world accept this? Some actors within Israel may be approaching this in a messianic way, or so you argue. But the goals of a small faction within Israel is hardly a reason to ignore the larger reality. The theology that controls Iran at present is likely held by a small faction, but they govern using death and fear, and their populace has cowered before the life-threatening policies of their rulers. That is the issue that confronts us.

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